Garys Books: January 2024

Wednesday, January 31, 2024

The Only Woman in the Room

Book: The Only Woman in the Room

Basic Information : Synopsis : Characters : Expectations : Thoughts : Evaluation : Book Group : New Words : Book References : Good Quotes : References

Basic Information:

Author: Marie Benedict

Edition: epub on Libby from the San Francisco Public Library

Publisher: Sourcebooks Landmark

ISBN: 9781492666868 (ISBN10: 1492666866)

Start Date: January 22, 2024

Read Date: January 31, 2024

312 pages

Genre: Fiction, Fiction-History, OSHER

Language Warning: None

Rated Overall: 2 out of 5

History: 2 out of 5

Religion: Jewish

Fiction-Tells a good story: 3 out of 5

Fiction-Character development: 4 out of 5

Synopsis:

The author tells a fictionalized story of Hedy Lamarr from 1933 to 1942 told from Lamarr's point of view. She takes us from the point where Lamarr is pursued by her first husband in Vienna through him making her as good as a prisoner in his mansions. She does sit in on many of her husband's meetings which gives her an idea about how munitions are manufactured and the weaknesses they have.

When she discovers her husband’s ties with the Nazi’s, she escapes from him, leaves Austria and ends up in Hollywood via Paris and London. In Hollywood she is under contract with Mayer who makes her a star. She remarries, adopts a Jewish child, and gets divorced again. She wants to redeem herself and aid the war effort. She and a composer then work on developing a guidance system for torpedoes.

The Navy rejected the invention until the Korean War. The book ends with her pushing war bonds.

Cast of Characters:

Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler (Hedy Lamarr). Jewish actress
Friedrich Mandl. Arms manufacturer. Half Jewish. Power behind the Austrian government for a time
Mrs. Lubbig-Lamarr’s dressing in the Austrian theater
Mama-a concert pianist before being married. Jewish
Papa-a banking officer at a large bank. Jewish
Prince Ernst Rüdiger Camillo von Starhemberg-Austrian royalty and a power in Austrian politics.
Count Ferdinand von Starhemberg-Brother to the Prince. This may not be true as when I looked at Ernst Rüdiger Starhemberg’s family tree there is only one brother and that is not Ferinand. There is a Ferdinand who was an ancestor of Ernst Rüdiger Starhemberg.
Louis Mayer-Head of MGM
Max Reinhardt-Mentor to Lamarr
Illona Massey-first roommate in Hollywood
Gene Markey-Second husband
James Lamarr Loder-Adopted son. Died May 2022. In Wikipedia, there is some proof that he was actually Lamarr and John Loder’s son while Lamarr was married to Markey.
Charles Kettering-Inventory and head of the National Inventors COuncil
George Antheil-composer and tinker. Benedict does not give a good summary of his background, but it encompasses a lot more than composing.
Eddie Rhodes-a real sailor who was planted in crowds to help incite people to give to the war effort

Places:

Döbling
Schloss Schwarzenau
Villa Fegenberg
15 Schwarzenbergplatz
Hollywood

Expectations:

Recommendation: Osher
When: January 11, 2023
Date Became Aware of Book:
Why do I want to read this book: OSHER Book
What do I think I will get out of it?

Thoughts:

The problems I have with a fiction story which purports to be about history are two fold. First, you never know where the author's rendering of the story ends and the history begins. The second is you do not know what is fiction or made up facts, where facts are bent and what really happened. Benedict seems to put the worst of both into this telling of a segment of Hedy Lamarr’s life.

I will be using her common name of Lamarr throughout this writeup instead of her family or married names.

How Lamarr is portrayed makes me think that she is just as guilty of manipulation as she is of being manipulated. How benedict portrays her is that powerful men can and do use her, sometimes in a sexual way. Her second husband reminds her of her father and so she marries him and finds out that life with him is not a returning back to her father. Her first husband overwhelms a talented teenager into marrying him. She finds out that he is only using her to lure better deals for his business.

On the other hand, how Benedict portrays her, she plays on the male lusts for her getting what she wants. This is shown in her escape attempt by the manipulation of a brother of her husband’s friend. Then later on between marriages where she is on a constant dating speed dail to stars, but not really committing to any.

Also as Benedict probably does not mean to show that Lamarr is not a good judge of people. The man was not the reputation, he had proven to me. First there is being lured into doing Ecstasy as an underaged woman. Then judging Mandl as not being like what people said about him. And finally the men she married did not speak to her being able to find lasting relationships.

Part I

Benedict portrays Lamarr as being young and confident in her own abilities to handle people. But then it seems like she meets someone, particularly older men, who she melts in their presence.

Benedict has Lamarr, who is 18, closing a successful opening night playing Empress Elisabeth of Austria. To her surprise and chagrin, somebody sent a large number of bouquets to her, mostly anonymous. She finds out that it is Mandl. She does not know who he is. Her dresser updates her. He is a womanizer and owner of a large ammunition manufacturer. Because of who he sells it to, he is known as The Merchant of Death. He continued to send her bouquets. Finally asks her to dinner. She did not feel comfortable accepting.

She lives in Döbling in Vienna, a Jewish neighborhood.

Mandl had also sent bouquets to her parents house. Her mother asks What could you have possibly done to encourage such a display?” Her tone held its usual judgment. Benedict has set the tone that the mother was critical of Lamarr. Mama made innuendo based upon Lamarr's film Ecstasy. Instead, Mandl invited himself to meet with her parents to ask to go out with her for dinner. Parents were willing to meet with him since he was a person of influence. The book has it that she did not want to date him.

You were born after the Great War, Hedy. You don’t understand how politics can be a force of destruction. Hedy Lamarr was born in November 1914. World War I started in July 1914 and ended in 1918.

The government is moving towards a dictatorship and an alliance with Germany. Mandl is one of the powers behind the government.

Lamarr meets Mandl for the first time. Instead of finding him repulsive, she is attracted to him, Not in the physical sense exactly, although he was handsome in a polished way with his impeccable navy Savile Row suit and gleaming cuff links, but in the power and confidence that exuded from him. Instead of the immature males, he felt like a man. I’d always thought of Papa as a successful man, and he was, but only now did I understand true power. Savile Row was started in 1938 and is a London based shop. This is 1933 and would someone like Mandl buy from someplace in England?

Mandl’s reputation is not good. But he asks Lamarr to judge him as he is and says that I am not my reputation.

Interesting phrase: the respect of frankness. I suppose the reason why we are not frank with each other is two reasons. First the fear of losing somebody. Second is the desire not to offend or provoke.’

Benedict has the 19 year old Lamarr falling for him. Mandl is only 33 at this time and has been married once before. I[Lamarr] surrendered my world to him. But he was reluctant to talk about his family. He kisses her for the first time, seven weeks after treating her to lavish meals.

She had not been to any of his homes-see the places above.

Mandl asks for Lamarr to marry him. The man was not the reputation, he had proven to me. Her father has doubts, but Lamarr seems agreeable, to her father’s surprise. Was Papa telling me to refuse his proposal? His opinions mattered quite a lot to me. Lamarr did not recognize her own Jewishness. Her family was not religious. The few religious Jews I knew in our neighborhood, those who kept Sabbath or displayed menorahs or mezuzahs in their homes, did so quietly, not with the bold insouciance of the Ostjuden, and they looked like everyone else. Her father thought that Mandl might be able to protect her if the Jews were persecuted like they were in Germany.

Interesting dialogue. From the above it sounds more like her parents were more concerned with her protection than Mandl himself. They might not like him, but he could be a safe haven for what they feared was coming. Wikipedia has a different take on this Her parents, both of Jewish descent, did not approve, due to Mandl's ties to Italian fascist leader Benito Mussolini, and later, German Führer Adolf Hitler, but they could not stop the headstrong Lamarr. The reference from this was “A Candid Portrait of Hedy Lamarr", Liberty magazine, December 1938, pp. 18–19. I wonder where Benedict got her take on Lamarr’s parents?

Lamarr accepts being Mandl’s wife, the security that would bring, and no longer being an actress. Lamarr has to convert to Christianity to marry Mandl. She agrees. But it sounds like she is no more Christian in belief as her belief in Judaism was.

Papa had always told me that the beauty I was born with must have a purpose. But so is brains, so is strength, so is weakness. We are all born with a purpose. That is what a Christian belief is. The question of our lives tends to be how we fulfill that purpose?

low, angry voice only I could hear-this was during the selection of a wedding dress.It is a foreshadowing of who Mandl really is. Not the man who is interested in what Lamarr is rather interested in having his own way. Mandl wants to be in charge of all facets of his life, including his wedding-not so much their wedding.

Money and power always prevail. On the honeymoon, the hotel staff made a minor mistake which showed what kind of power Mandl had and what he expected. Also he is possessive of Lamarr. Whenever someone, particularly a man, even talked with Lamarr, Mandl got upset.

When Lamarr and Mandl get back to Austria, they go to one of his places. She is introduced to the staff. Mandl will take care of everything. When Lamarr tries to figure out what is her duties, he replies The only onus that you should carry on your delicate shoulders is that of your beauty. I wonder how true this is or is Benedict making it up?

Lamarr is permitted to visit very few of her friends, but is able to see her parents.

She is able to gather intelligence on a coup against the Austrian government. But she did not realize this was by the Jews in Austria. From this she joined Mandl in other meetings where she’d been the only woman in the room. Yes, the title of the book-also used at the end. It is used at the end of the book as well. Lamarr realized that the information she gave helped to crush this rebellion.

The July Putsch was described and seems pretty much accurate. After the coup attempt, a policy of appeasement was implemented towards Germany.

Benedict has Mandl showing Lamarr’s movie, Ecstasy. She has Mandl not really knowing the background and getting upset over what appeared on the screen, becoming abusive to Lamarr. He locks her into the house. But for the first time, I began to think about escape. She goes on and says let him think he’d broken me and recast me into a mold of his own making, a graceful automaton. I would think someone like Mandl would have known about the film’s reputation even before marrying Lamarr. It sounds like from Benedict that Lamarr was already thinking about the weaknesses of the arms Mandl was manufacturing. This would have been as a 21 year old.

Lamarr starts to lead Ferdinand von Starhemberg on, in a plan to escape. Benedict says that Ferdinand is Ernst Rüdiger Starhemberg’s younger brother, but there is no mention of him in family trees.

Lamarr’s father was sick. She confronts the servants-her keepers-to get to her father’s side. I prayed to a nebulous god— Interesting comment. Who does Benedict think Lamarr is praying too? The Judeo-Christian god? The cosmos? Something else?

He has angina. Doctor says that he will live, but is at risk of a heart attack. He has Lamarr promise to protect her mother. Her father dies.

Concerns about Italy and Germany moving closer. Also about the new governments moving toward appeasement with Germany. Mandl and his associates felt that the only true belief was the belief in the infallibility of their own power. Lamarr is at a diner with Il Duce (Mussolini), Italy’s dictator who makes a pass at Lamarr. Mandl’s power is weakening as well. Mandl and von Starhemberg see the writing on the wall and are looking for ways to switch sides. Even with Mandl being half blooded jewish, he thinks that he would be an essential link for the Germans and be exempt.

Lamarr attempts an escape by using Ferdinand under the guise of an affair. Mandl finds out and intercepts the fake lovers. There is a penalty to pay for this.

Mandl has a secret meeting with Hitler which Lamarr is not invited to. She eavesdrops and hears that Mandl will be named an Honorary Aryan, but Lamarr would be part of the Final Solution. She made plans to leave Austria. Her mother would not come with her. On August 25, 1937, she left, going to Paris, then England. Benedict does combine a couple of accounts into how Lamarr escapes.

Part II

She gets divorced and makes herself known to Louis Mayer. She was renamed from Mandl or Kiesler to Lamarr. She strikes a pay rate which she finds acceptable.

in accepting a second history, I could never really leave the first history behind. According to Benedict, Lamarr discovers this from her longing for Austria.

Lamarr gets her first role in Algiers as a mysterious woman. Austria is united with Germany without any hostilities. She was able to divorce Mandl. The divorce not only freed me from my fears, but also gave me liberty to date whomever I chose. This license gave me renewed hunger to bounce from man to man, seeking a safe haven in their arms but never surrendering my autonomy,

Now Lamarr’s concern is to get her mother out of Austria. She used Mayer’s connections to get her out. In the meantime, she started going with Gene Markey and eventually married him, eight weeks later. She did not tell Markey of her background.

Lamarr and her European friends were following what was going on in Europe with great concern. At one of their gatherings, a woman proposed to adopt Jewish children fleeing from Europe. Benedict has Lamarr adapting one of them.

Cecilia Razovsky and Frances Perkins in America and Kate Rosenheim

Her marriage to Markey was on the rocks. According to Benedict, Lamarr found his desire for the false, public Hedy instead of the real one upsetting. But she also did not let Markey know who she was-a Jew for instance. According to Benedict, she also did not let Markey know the source of their adopted son, Jamesie, being a Jew. They divorced.

In Wikipedia, there is some proof that he was actually Lamarr and John Loder’s son while Lamarr was married to Markey. The reference is the New York Post in 2001. This book was written in 2019. Lamarr passed of Jamesie as being adopted. Benedict does not talk about an affair with Loder. Also the book ends before she married Loder.

Sinking of the City of Benares affected her. She felt guilty over not telling what she knew. Was I exaggerating my own role? So she wanted to find some way to help stop Germany.

Talks about meeting Hellmuth Walter who had done work in Germany on propulsion. This got her interested in the guidance of torpedoes. She meets up with George Antheil, a composer. Benedict has this meeting at a party. Wikipedia has it that Lamarr consulted Antheil about a gland problem she was having-he wrote an advice column and had written a book about female glands. Antheil's interest in this area brought him into contact with the actress Hedy Lamarr, who sought his advice about how she might enhance her upper torso. He suggested glandular extracts, but their conversation then moved to torpedoes. BUT Military.com has that the two did meet at a dinner party.

Benedict has it that Lamarr started working together with him because of playing a piano duet with him and realizing how to change radio frequencies.

The book has it that Lamarr figured this out. But from Wikipedia, it sounded more like Antheil had it worked out for pianos and that they adapted it for radio controlled torpedoes. Antheil and Lamarr developed the idea of using frequency hopping: in this case using a player piano roll to randomly change the signal sent between the control center and torpedo at short bursts within a range of 88 frequencies on the spectrum (88 black and white keys are on a piano keyboard). The specific code for the sequence of frequencies would be held identically by the controlling ship and in the torpedo. This basically encrypted the signal, as it was impossible for the enemy to scan and jam all 88 frequencies because this would have required too much power. Antheil would control the frequency-hopping sequence using a player-piano mechanism, which he had earlier used to score his Ballet Mécanique.

The conversation between Lamarr and Antheil sounds a bit different than what I think it would be. Maybe too set up. Sort of goes through a straw man type of dialogue with Lamarr having ready answers for everything.

Lamarr’s mother is now in Canada, away from London and the bombing. Eventually she ends up in Los Angeles.

Lamarr and Antheil work around their work schedules on the project on how to guide torpedoes. They worked out how to synchronize the torpedo and controller frequency changes based upon Antheil’s piano synchronization.

Benedict throws in a bit of male impropriety with the celebration which makes Lamarr concerned about their relationship.

They have secured the approval of the National Inventors Council and Charles Kettering. The next step is to get approval by the Navy. December 7th, 1941 has happened and the US is at war. The Navy rejects their invention. They go to Washington and are rejected again, in part because it was invented by a woman. They want her to sell war bonds.

Note: This seems like the navy saw a talented person, but could only think of how to use that person in one way.

So Lamarr goes out and gets people to buy war bonds. The shtick was to have a sailor planted in the crowd to give her a kiss. She said yes, but the audience had to give a certain amount to make it happen.

Benedict has Lamarr thinking as she is on stage, How many masks have I worn on my path? She also thought about how Antheil wanted her to continue working on inventions Work to which I’d refused to return after the navy’s rejection, even when George begged me; I simply couldn’t make myself that vulnerable again. To the world she was a beautiful face. In her head she was an inquisitive person who liked to invent. Also a Jew. I had always been alone under my mask, the only woman in the room.

Interesting that Benedict leaves it that she only worked on one thing. There was all sorts of things which Lamarr worked on:

An enhanced stop light
A solid cube, about the size of a bullion cube, but for soda drinks
A mechanism which controlled the flaps on planes-Howard Hughes put this on some of the planes he built.

In the Author’s Note, she says that some of the inner workings of a cell phone was because Lamarr (and Antheil) invented the technology, which was not used by the Navy. how on earth did an invention patented by a dazzling movie star in 1942 eventually become part of the foundation for the modern cell phone, a device that has transformed our world. She goes into how this affected communications. There are a couple of Wikipedia articles which goes into this: Spread spectrum and Frequency-hopping spread spectrum.

Evaluation:

Marie Benedict writes imaginary tales about women whom we may not know much about. For one, I have read her book The Personal Librarian about Belle Greene and appreciated just knowledge gained. The Only Woman in the Room looks at a snippet of Hedy Lamarr’s life between the ages of about 18 to 28. She imagines what Lamarr and the people around her would be like and sets up her story that way. While it is possible to get insight through this process, it is also hard to know where Benedict’s storytelling ends and Lamarr’s life begins.

By this last statement is that Benedict follows the rough contours of Lamarr’s life during this time period. Much, and maybe all, of the dialogue and stories is conjecture on Benedict’s part. There are some really basic things which Benedict bends Lamarr’s story, such as when Lamarr was born and the status of her first son. Also there is a lot left out of Lamarr’s story-such as the other things she invented. This leaves us thinking Lamarr is a one hit wonder. These and many other things make me cast questions in my mind about the story which Benedict presents.

Benedict can write an entertaining story. I just do not trust the narrative that she portrays about this real person.

Notes from my book group:

One of the things which stands out in the book is how Lamarr’s feminality is prominent. How does she use that to get what she wants? How do others take advantage of her, manipulate her? Do you think if Lamarr was around today her story would be the same?

Benedict has her saying after her divorce that This license gave me renewed hunger to bounce from man to man, seeking a safe haven in their arms but never surrendering my autonomy, Do you think she achieved this? How do you think this reservedness affected her marriages?

Benedict says: I’d always thought of Papa as a successful man, and he was, but only now did I understand true power. Later on she has this to say: in the infallibility of their own power. This was said in regard to Mandl. Explain the difference between success and power? Do you need to have one so you can have the other? Is there a weakness in this statement?

Mandl uses the phrase the respect of frankness. What does this mean to you? How is frankness a sign of respect? Can it be something else?

Discuss Lamarr’s Jewishness. Was it prominent in her life? How did it affect who she was? What happened to her? What is her concept of God?

in accepting a second history, I could never really leave the first history behind. Do you think Lamarr was trying to escape who she was? Can one ever escape your past? How or why not?

In this account, Mandl uses isolation and the implied threat of coercion. Describe how this is done. What are the effects? What lessons can we take from this?

When Lamarr and Antheil submits their frequency hopping device for use in torpedoes, it gets rejected. What are the reasons given? What do you think the reasons behind the reasons given are? What can we learn today about how to evaluate ideas? How do you figure out which ideas are worth pursuing?

What did their device do? Why did Lamarr and Antheil’s concepts get acceptance later? Why is this useful in modern technology?

What other inventions did Lamarr develop? Why do the other inventions not get talked about?

In a fictional account like this book, how can you tell what is fictionalized and what happened? How complete of a story is this? How true is this story to Lamarr’s life?

Why do you read fictionalized accounts of history events or people? Why not read “real” biographies or histories?

Some of the facts of Hedy Lamarr’s life are either changed or falsified. How does this affect the reading of this book?

How do you want your life to change because you read this book?

Many of these questions are either from or adapted from LitLovers.

Why the title of The Only Woman in the Room?

Does this story work as a biography?

Did the ending seem fitting? Satisfying? Predictable?

Which character was the most convincing? Least?

Which character did you identify with?

Which one did you dislike?

Every story has a world view. Were you able to identify this story’s world view? What was it? How did it affect the story?

In what context was religion talked about in this book?

Why do you think the author wrote this book?

What would you ask the author if you had a chance?

What “takeaways” did you have from this book?

What central ideas does the author present?

Are they personal, sociological, global, political, economic, spiritual, medical, or scientific?

How did this book affect your view of the world?

What questions did you ask yourself after reading this book?

Talk about specific passages that struck you as significant—or interesting, profound, amusing, illuminating, disturbing, sad...?

What was memorable?

Reading Groups General Fiction Guide

LitLover’s Question

Reading Groups

Arlene’s Book Group Question

New Words:

Coquettish: behaving in such a way as to suggest a playful sexual attraction; flirtatious.
Vapidity: the state or quality of being vapid; flatness; dullness; insipidity
Vacuity: lack of thought or intelligence; empty-headedness
lavender marriage: a male–female mixed-orientation marriage, undertaken as a marriage of convenience to conceal the socially stigmatised sexual orientation of one or both partners.
Hase: Bunny

Book References:

Sissy-refers to a play
Ecstasy-probably refers to Lamarr’s movie, but she co-wrote a book called
Ecstasy and Me: My Life as a Woman
Radiodynamics: The Wireless Control of Torpedoes and Other Mechanisms, by B. F. Miessner

Good Quotes:

First Line: My lids fluttered open, but the floodlights blinded me for a moment
Last Line: I had always been alone under my mask, the only woman in the room.

References:

Author's Web Site
Wikipedia-Author
Wikipedia-Hedy Lamarr
Amazon-Book
Amazon-Author
Barnes and Noble
GoodReads-Book
GoodReads-Author
New York Times Review
Lit Lovers
Kirkus Review
Reading Groups
Arlene’s Book Group Question
YouTube
Books from the Bed Blog
US Patent 2,292,387
US Naval Institute - good explanation of the invention and who Hedy Lamarr was and the reasons for rejection.
Military.com - another biography.
PBS 2018 Documentary- Bombshell: The Hedy Lamarr Story

Tuesday, January 23, 2024

Brave the Wild River

Book: Brave the Wild River
Basic Information : Synopsis : Characters : Expectations : Thoughts : Evaluation : Book Group : New Words : Book References : Good Quotes : Table of Contents : References

Basic Information:

Author: Melissa Sevigny

Edition: ePub on Libby from the Mountain View Public Library

Publisher: W. W. Norton & Company

ISBN: 9780393868234 (ISBN10: 0393868230)

Start Date: January 12, 2024

Read Date: January 19, 2024

304 pages

Genre: History, Biography, Outdoors, OSHER

Language Warning: None

Rated Overall: 3½ out of 5

History: 4 out of 5

Synopsis:

Clover and Jotter are botanists, and female. Their claim to fame is that they are the first women to go down the length of the Colorado River successfully. Most of the book concentrates the the trip down the Colorado with Nevills and his crew. There are the accounts of going through rapids, how the women were treated and their tasks, as well as the botanizing they did.

In addition there is background on people and places. A good portion of the book also talks about how the press treated this expedition. The last of the book talks about the status of the Colorado.

Cast of Characters:

Elzada Clover-lead female botanist. Born 1896 in Nebraska-was 42 when she went down the river. Family moved to Texas. Was a teacher and principal. Spoke Spanish. Got her Phd in Botany from the University of Michigan. Not ladylike. Adventuresome.
Lois Jotter-female botanist, Born in Weaverville in 1914 to a German Mennonite family. Her father was a forester. Jotter was expected to love science. Moved to Wisconsin when she was seven. Then Michigan. From early age wanted to become a botanist. Got her Masters in 1936 from University of Michigan. Working on Phd. More interested in lab work than being in the field. She had attended the Yosemite Field School.
Bessie Hyde-female who died trying to go down the Colorado in 1928
Harley H Bartlett-head of botany at University of Michigan.
Norman Nevills-family owned the lodge at Medicine Hat. Riverman. Lead on trip down the Colorado
Doris Nevills-wife of Norman. Ran the Medicine Hat Lodge
Carol Davidson-assistant to Clover on an early Utah trip
Eugene Atkinson-25 years old in 1938. Zoologist. Went on the first half of the trip.
Buzz Holmstrom-veteran river person. Ran the Colorado in 1937 and again in the Fall of 1938.
LaPhene Don Harris-one of the oarsmen. 27 years old and with the USGS, but was being transferred to Salt Lake City. Left the expedition halfway through as he needed to get to his job.
Bill Gibson-crewmember. Architect and photographer. He would be the one who made the movies. Also he was expected to be an oarsman.
Eugene Clyde LaRue-engineer who explored the area to see about the feasibility of building dams.
Loren Bell-recruited to go on the next stage of river
Dell Reed-42 year old prospector
Miner R Tillotson-superintendent of Grand Canyon NP
Claude Birdseye-colonel who led a 1927 expedition to map the Colorado for the USGS. LaRue was the engineer.
George Melendez Wright-park biologist who argued to let things go and do not disturb. Also to study and have a baseline
Emery Kolb-photographer, explorer at Grand Canyon. Nevills takes him on the rest of the journey

Places - I have put together a Google Earth file of the places and route talked about in the book.

Cataract Canyon-41 miles long and 62 rapids, almost all continuous.
Mexican Hat
Green River
Colorado River
Mile-Long Rapid in Cataract Canyon
Gypsum Creek Rapid (or possibly Gypsum Canyon Rapid)
Clearwater Canyon
Dark Canyon Rapid
Dirty Devil River
Glen Canyon
Ticaboo Creek
San Juan River
Rainbow Bridge National Monument
Lee’s Ferry
Badger Creek Rapid
Soap Creek
Stanton’s Cave
Vasey’s Paradise-fresh water spring. Lots of plant life.
President Harding Rapid
Little Colorado River-sacred place for several of the Native American nations
Tanner Rapid
Hance Rapid.
Upper Granite Gorge
Sockdolager Rapids
Grapevine Rapids
Kaibab Bridge
Bright Angel Creek
Granite Falls-I think this is Granite Rapids.
Hermit Rapid
Serpentine Rapid
Elves Chasm
Havasu River
Lava Falls
Separation Rapid
Lake Mead
Emery Falls-Grand Wash Cliffs-Now called Columbine Falls

Expectations:

Recommendation: Osher
When: January 11, 2023
Date Became Aware of Book:
Why do I want to read this book: OSHER Book
What do I think I will get out of it? An account of running the Colorado.

Thoughts:

Towards the last of the book, Sevigny notes that both Clover and Jotter wanted to be know as botanists rather than the first women to boat the length of the Colorado successfully. This left me wondering, why did Sevigny write this book? Would it be to talk about a couple botanists? If it were men, would she write this book?What would Clover and Jotter have thought of this?

Prologue: Stranded

Sevigny sets the tone of the book in this chapter. The party of six, two of them female botanists, have had a rough stretch where one of the three boats had carried two of the party well past the established stopping point. And now one of them, Lois Jotter, was wondering if she should have really been along on this trip. No other botanists had traveled down the Colorado and no females had successfully made the journey-one had died.

Elzada Clover and Lois Jotter wanted to survey and bring back plant life from the Colorado. Clover had arranged this trip. Now in June 1938 it was happening.

On the Borders of Precipices

Gives background on Clover and Jotter. The author notes that For much of the preceding century, botany had been a suitable hobby for ladies. Much of it was field work, but this was shifting towards labs as well. Field work was being done by amateur ladies. The lab work more by men.

Clover was a school principal in Texas. The author notes that As the principal of South Mission School, Clover must have been complicit in a racist program of instruction that sought to “Americanize” children of Mexican descent and offer coursework “fitted to their needs,” which differed from the education white students received.

Talks about Asa Gray. Gray asked the question: Why were species of plants distributed over the Earth the way they were? Did they spread to new locations or stay forever fixed in place? What exactly was a species, anyway? These would influence Clover’s training.

Elizabeth Gertrude Knight Britton-a name I was not familiar with.

Clover loved to teach: a natural outlet for her gift of storytelling.

August 1937-Clover went to Medicine Hat to look for plants in Utah. Went with Davidson. It was during this trip where she met Norman Nevills. They roughed out a trip Clover was envisioning to go do on the Colorado and collect botanical specimens.

Have You Seen That River?

Clover and Nevills had a correspondence going. Was this trip on for 1938? Yes. Clover needed to get two scientists. Nevills had two river people lined up.

Sevigny talks about Continental Drift. It was a relatively new theory. Geologists were not on board yet. But it had gained cachet with botanists as it explained how come there were similar plants throughout the planet.

Sevigny also talked about conservation and preservation vs ecology. The idea behind conservation/preservation was either romantic of being in love with trees or preservation to look out for the future so that the trees were still there for use. conservation movement arose an ideology known as preservation, which spoke of wilderness in romantic terms. See the books by Pinchot: The Training of a Forester and The Fight for Conservation. Jotter’s father was like other foresters-looking at conservation as a means to protect the future. But he must have harbored a secret love of the sequoia, a love not satisfied solely by its utility.

They rallied supporters with nationalistic language, saying that the solemn groves of Yosemite Valley. By groves, I am thinking she means Sequoia, not the oaks, maples, and pines. What Sequoia groves are there in Yosemite Valley? The only three groves I know about there are Mariposa, Tuolumne and Merced-none are in the Valley. I believe there are a couple Sequoias at the Valley cemetery, but they were planted and nobody considers them groves.

Bartlett was initially reluctant to approve the expedition, but then as Clover presented more of what she was going to do, he came to the conclusion that I wouldn’t hesitate to do it myself, so why refuse my approval for her? This was not University support, but his own approval.

The Colorado River’s canyons had been mapped by surveyors and river runners, but never by a botanist.

Nevills thought more that this would be a commercial venture than as an expedition. His thought is that he wanted to turn going down the Colorado as a money making venture with tourists. So not having it be an University venture fit into those plans.

There were a lot of people concerned about women going into the wild. This was not done. This does not explain all the women who went West during the previous century.

Atkinson was chosen. For the other scientist slot, Clover was a bit slow on deciding. After considering, she asked Jotter to go on the trip. Clover was reluctant as it was one thing to risk her life, but she was asking someone else to risk there. Jotter had wilderness experience. She had attended the Yosemite Field School where rangers were trained.

This is something I am not sure about. Sevigny has that the people who came to the Yosemite Field School would build fires on top of Glacier Point and push the embers off. She says that the Park Service decided the display was an embarrassment. I have always heard that it was Camp Curry staff along with Park Rangers who would push this over the edge. That is was stopped because it was not consistent with the Park’s mission. She does cite a couple articles. I looked at M. E. Beatty, “A History of Firefall,” Yosemite Nature Notes 13, no. 6 (June 1934), 41–43 and did not find reference to either the Yosemite Field School doing this or the part was embarrassed. Also Education News, School Life 22, no 7, March 1937: 223 was in Sevigny’s notes. This is only a reference to openings at the Yosemite Field School.

Buzz Holstrom ran the river in 1937. In an article he says that a woman has no place on the river.

Sevigny gives a brief history of trips down the Colorado.

There is the back and forth between Jotter and her family which was generally supportive, but wanted to make sure she was not getting into something which she shouldn’t. Her response was that she would be bringing back as much interesting material as I can, as otherwise, I would not consider going just for the experience,” Jotter’s father told her this: You’ll come back changed. The river will change you.

Nevills was looking for one of the scientists to also assist in the boating. Clover said they did not have that kind of experience.

When the news got out, there was a lot of concern about women going down the Colorado.

June 7, 1938- loaded up gear to take to Utah.

A Mighty Poor Place for Women

Describes the trip to Utah. Chicago, Des Mones, Omaha-Each city a day trip away from the previous. Crossed the Continental Divide. Sevigny stopped giving town by town places where they stopped.

Talked about Powell’s original trip down the Colorado.

Talks about that Nevills was making each boat by hand, a unique design. Talks about how he met his wife and how on their honeymoon they went down the San Juan River. Because of this, He realized he needed to work with the river instead. He had kept trying to power through the river. Nevills’ boats were built for maneuverability rather than to utilize muscle. He also made it so the person with the oars was facing the direction of travel rather than on relying on someone else to watch. Nevills called this facing the danger.

June 12, 1938-Reached Green River, UT. Clover collected plants here to see if plants extended across basins. In this case, the Green River.

Boats were labeled Nevills Expedition. The boats were named Wen, Botany and Mexican Hat. This shocked Clover intro realizing they were passengers not the ones who were driving the voyage. Sevigny went through some of the luggage taken and the supplies.

June 19, 1938-Drove to the Green River and met the last of the crew, Bill Gibson. Drove to Green River to start. The start of summer and the rivers were high with snow melt.

June 20, 1938-Started their trip down the Green River.

There Goes the Mexican Hat!

Since the women were not working the oars, they did the camp stuff, like cook and start the fire. They also went through and collected plants when they could. So far the trip had been pretty calm. Nevills said that . “I feel certain that none of them realize just what real bad water is like.” They had spent four days on the Green River.

June 24, 1938-They meet up with the Colorado and see why it is called that as the water is red. They met their first rapid. after their tranquil days on the Green. “The character of the river changed,” Jotter wrote in her journal, “and slowly we realized the force of the Colorado.”

Then they came to Cataract Canyon. This is where the Prologue started us. Also they found an inscription from Wesley Powell-but it was from a steamship called that.

Description of Clover’s thoughts and observations concerning plant life. Though Clover was unfamiliar with Tansley’s concept of an ecosystem, she was nevertheless doing the work Tansley thought so important.

The Mexican Hat had slipped away and went down the first rapid. Harris and Jotter chased after it in the Wen. They caught up to it 6 or 7 rapids downstream. Harris went back upstream to let them know the status, leaving Jotter to tend to the boats. She stayed there overnight alone. It was an uncomfortable night for all. The river’s constant roar sounded full of fury. Nevills comforted himself with the thought: he had prepared for this. He was ready. There was nothing to do but carry on.

For a description of running this with modern day equipment, see the OARS site.

A Beautiful Pea-Green Boat

June 25, 1938-They all reunite. It had hit them differently, some felt shell-shocked others felt like they could conquer the River.

In the afternoon, they approached Mile-Long Rapid. Nevills demanded that they not run the rapid. He would not be swayed by what he called “incompetent opinions.” That seems harsh but wise. They stayed above it that night to go down it in the morning.

June 26, 1938-After working their way down the River and getting only 100’ further, Nevills reconsidered.

Sevigny talked about a survey team which met with a disaster on Mile-Long Rapid. They were not prepared to take the rapids and boats splintered and sank. Stanton was the engineer who had command of the expedition. His name is on several places.

Nevills brought each boat down the rapids individually. Most of the people walked it. After this, they stopped for the night.

June 27-28, 1938 - Days blurred. Nevills did not think highly of the men-each had their own weakness. He thought the women were standing up well. I wonder if this is because of expectations. He was not expecting much from the women and they did better than he thought, while the men were the opposite. If they[Clover and Jotter] came to the Colorado to prove their courage, it was only to themselves.

They found plenty of tumbleweed. Sevigny talks about how tumbleweeds spread. They thrived on disturbance, and there was plenty of that in canyon country.

Only one topic consumed her[Clover] more[than plants]. That was running the rapids.

June 29, 1938-Only made it about 15 miles. The waters are receding. They get to Gypsum Canyon (Gypsum Creek Rapid) about 1pm. They get caught up and the Botany flips up and causes both Atkinson and Gibson to be flung from the boat. They were able to save the boat. Clover had the nursery rhyme about the Owl and Pussycat who sailed the seas in a pea-green boat.

There are several features named which have multiple locations, some official and some not. Here is one which I have been wondering about. She calls this Gypsum Creek Rapid. But Gypsum Creek and the rapid is on the San Juan River, many miles away. Seems like the current popular name is Gypsum Canyon Rapid. [Note to Gary: see if you can get an older, pre-dam map of the area. I did. On the 1923 maps, there is only the words Cataract Canyon. On the 1953 map I see Gypsum Canyon also there are rapids noted at the mount of the canyon]

June 30, 1938. They had spent the night above Clearwater Canyon. Nevills was second guessing brining this bunch on the trip as they nearly avoided disaster.

Delayed

At the start of the chapter, Sevigny talks about some of the plant life Clover finds. One was the Indian Paintbrush. She says: innocent-looking Indian paintbrush which sent sneaky root tendrils underground to steal from its neighbors. Finally found a reference which noted that Indian Paintbrush lives off of other plants..

June 30, 1938-Lay over day to recover from Gypsum Canyon Rapids. Talked about Clyde Eddy’s book on the River. Turns out that this expedition was running late. They expected to make Lee’s Ferry by July 4th.

July 1, 1938-Dark Canyon Rapid. Nothing is said about it. Just an ominous name. They did spot names they recognized on rocks. Camped at Dirty Devil River. Harris is thinking about bailing at Lees Ferry so he can be at his job by July 28th-concerned about the progress the group were making. They were about to enter Glen Canyon.

July 2-4, 1938-Talked about Glen Canyon being more leisurely than what they had encountered. Also Hite-I do not think this is related to the prospector at Hite Cove in California. Even though both were miners. They stopped at Hite and were greeted by a couple who were trying to make a go of it. Treated well. Floating along.

Jotter, Harris, Atkinson, and Gibson were discontent.

July 5, 1938-Passed the mouth of the San Juan River.

July 6, 1938-Walked up to Rainbow Bridge National Monument. Describes their walking the six miles to the bridge and them looking around. They seemed to be loose about the customs of the place as well as raiding a storage place for food.

Meanwhile the world was wondering where they were. How come they were late? Were they still alive?

July 7, 1938-Search planes had been sent out. They made contact with the expedition.

Hell, Yes! What River?

July 8-12, 1938 - They made it to Lee’s Ferry. Spent the time here recruiting and resting. Harris was leaving. Atkinson was on the fence and Nevils pushed him off. Nevills went to Medicine Hat-Clover went with him.

Talks about how Lee’s Ferry is the dividing line on how the water is split among states. LaRue knew the Colorado River Basin had experienced times of deep drought—droughts that lasted decades or centuries, the kind of drought that shriveled sagebrush and gave the cacti sunburn.

Bell is recruited to go on the next stage of the river. Also Reed

Newspapers were having a field day with both accurate and inaccurate stories.

Came back through Grand Canyon and met Tillosten.

Jotter met Holmstrom and got along well.

Paradise

Most of the chapters on when they were running the River has to do with either: running the rapids and how dangerous they were; plants which was being collected; descriptions

of places or events; and camp life.

July 13, 1938 - They now were entering the Grand Canyon.. They also had two others along for a day’s ride. They met their first rapid at Badger Creek Rapid. Without Atkinson, there seemed to be better relationships. One bad apple? Soap Creek was the next rapid.

Talks about the Birdseye expedition to lay the groundwork for damming the Colorado.

July 14, 1938 - Soap Creek was the next rapids. This was a dangerous rapid where people had died.

Talks about the stories of the Grand Canyons and the mystery of it.

July 15, 1938 - Talks about after they camped and gathered samples. Clover was finding the Canyon not oppressive, but a nameless beauty.

July 16, 1938 - They passed Stanton’s Cave. They did not stop here, but a short distance was Vasey’s Paradise. Talks about a biologist named Merriam. Clover thought that his work was OK as a generalization, but when it came to particulars, there were other factors. They only had time for an hour to do this.

The next set of rapids was President Harding Rapid.

July 17, 1938-Ran 25 miles. Went past the confluence with the Little Colorado River. They hit Tanner Rapid before camping.

A Most Unusual and Hazardous Means

July 18-20, 1938 - Crowd gathers on the Rim to see the boats come in. They navigated Hance Rapid. Then entered Upper Granite Gorge. Series of rapids which you could not go around. The most notorious was Grapevine. All made it through, but one had a tougher time than the others.

They landed at Bright Angel Creek. Compared to the isolation of the preceding weeks, this place seemed crowded; This is where Phantom Ranch is.

Talks about the background of the area and the intentional introduction of non-native animals. Also about Phantom Ranch.

Wright’s document: Fauna No. 1,” set forth a series of blunt recommendations.

They climbed out to the south rim-high heat. Describes the time they spent on top of the rim, including an interview with NBC Radio. They stayed an extra day. Also talks about the Great Deer Hunt as an example of why Nature is best left to itself to take care of issues. Wright got into this. Wright may have been the first person within the Park Service to clearly articulate the idea that “unimpaired” meant keeping healthy, functioning ecosystems intact.

Nevills asks Kolb if he would like to accompany them the rest of the way. Yes.

The next day they went back down to the boats.

A Hundred Personalities

July 21?-, 1938 More rapids run. Women continue to be asked to walk the rapids instead of running them. Paused before running the Hermit Rapid. Needed to evaluate how to attack it. He decided not to run it, but let the boats be lined up. Next came Serpentine Rapid. Bell was injured on it and Reed took over the oaring duties.

Stopped at Elves Chasm to take a look at. Clover collected some samples of algae. But Nevills later on mistakenly tossed them.

Boating the Colorado had become routine, even though there was plenty of excitement. I understand this as hiking the JMT with all of its beauty tends to become Sleep, Eat, Hike and do that again the next day.

Stopped at Havasu River four days after returning to the river. Stopped to swim and collect plants. Then onward they floated. Description of a rainstorm. Then how the River was changing. At Lava Falls, more plant life. The rapids here were too much so they lined the boats. They were now a day or two away from Lake Mead.

Kolb told Clover the story of the Hydes who died around this area. Clover wrote It’s a great river with a hundred personalities,” she wrote, “but it is not kind. As the trip was coming to an end, She didn’t want to leave the river. They came to the Separation Rapid. That night they camped-something was missing. No roaring of the river. They had reached Lake Mead

She names a place as Granite Falls. But I think it is Granite Rapids. Looks like at one time it was named Granite Falls. But well before this expedition, it was changed to Granite Rapids in 1930. Note: She uses Hermit Rapids, but it used to be known as Hermit Falls. It got changed at the same time as Granite Falls did. So why use one or the other?

Lonely for the River

Without the force of the river, rowing across Lake Mead became a slog. Each took turns rowing. After a day and a half of rowing, they heard a motor boat. Holmstrom had come out and was giving them a tow. He got them to Columbine Falls. Then a Dept of Interior boat came and towed them the rest of the way in.

They stayed in Boulder City. Strange, the author does not give a date. They had left Green River 43 days before. So that would put it as August 3, 1938. All that time, their lives had been hitched to the river’s rhythms.

Clover stayed in Boulder City for a week. Nevills also stayed around because his wife ended up in a hospital. Rest of them split up shortly after arriving. Clover spent time by the pier-

She went down to the pier just to feel the water rising and falling beneath the boats. This is very common among those who do something epic. They now wonder what else is left and pine to get back on the trail.

After Nevills wife got out of the hospital, they went back with Clover, going to return to get her vehicle. Homstrom was going to go down the Colorado. Clover had spent time organizing her plant pressings. Nevills invited her for a couple week trip down the San Juan. Then she went to Texas for more botanizing.

Back in Michigan, both Clover and Jotter were somewhat celebrities. There were missing plants which detracted from there work and the samples were not good quality-hard to keep them dry river-running. It was a bad thought, that they would be remembered (if they were remembered at all) because they were women, not botanists. But isn’t that why this book is written? If she was a male botanist, would the author had taken up her pen to write this account?

A partner of Holmstrom found the missing plants and they were sent to them. They published papers and worked on their samples. Clover went back and did hikes in the area, sampling the plants. They published their complete list in the American Midland Naturalist.

Emery Falls is now called Columbine Falls.

Heaven As I Go Along

THE OLD RIVER RUINS PEOPLE FOR SETTLING down doesn’t it? I do not know about rivers, but when you come to a trail and been on it for awhile, it is hard to get it out of your system.

Clover found that most people thought more of the accomplishment of a woman who ran the river than the botanist who studied it. She wasn’t interested in river running merely for sport: she wanted to botanize.

Nevills gave Harris the Mexican Hat which was what was agreed to. Harris ran the Colorado with it. Nevills started taking paying customers down and made a living doing that. He invited Clover and Jotter to accompany him. Both women declined, busy with teaching and perhaps (though they never said so) unwilling to go with Nevills again. Seems more like speculation than fact.

Women running the Colorado now became regular. Almost all of Nevills trips included at least one woman.

Clover was reported to have more show and tell to boys and girls, rather than as a full-fledged botanist wanting to study plants. This infuriated her.

Nevills and his wife died in a plane crash. But Nevills company still exists under the name Canyoneers. They even have trips with botanists.

Clover continued to collect specimens, even returning to the Grand Canyon. Some of hers and Jotter ended up at the United States National Herbarium. If you go to their site, you can search by either Jotter or Clover and see the specimens in the collection

Jotter married a scientist at Cornell by the name of Victor Cutler. She got her Phd and had a child. Jotter preferred to see new places and new plants on every trip. She did not run the river again.

Glen Canyon Dam started operation in 1963.

Clover retired in 1967.

Legendary

The Colorado was changing. Dams changed the river. More people were running it. Below dams, the flow of the water was controlled. Instead of torrents and dryness, the water would flow when the need for electricity was needed.

Jotter was invited to go down the river to see how the gorge had changed. She accepted it to be part of the “Old TimersTrip.” Other scientists who had run it before the dams were invited to see if they could identify the changes. The trip was very luxurious compared to her trip.

The reactions were mixed. These kinds of conversations revealed why Clover and Jotter’s plant list mattered: as a hedge against the human tendency to forget how the world used to look. Things like the sandbars were disappearing. Vegetation was different. But there was also a very biodiverse system which had grown up in its place. So trying to simulate the previous river would remove that. “These people remind us,” Schmidt told an interviewer during the trip, “that the fundamental experience of this place is a place where you can have high adventure and really rich personal experiences.

The river’s ebb and flow was predictable. In fact, the more she [Jotter] thought about it, the more she realized that nothing was the same—nothing but the canyon walls, the Kaibab, Coconino, and sheer Redwall rising above the river in beige, rose, and mauve, changing in color with the time of day and season yet indifferent to them.

What does “wild” mean, anyway?

A wild place isn’t one unchanged by humans. It’s a place that changes us. Jotter understood that the 1938 trip had changed it.

In 1996 the Glen Canyon flood gates were opened to simulate a weeks worth of full river run. The hope was to build back up the sandbars and some of the other natural occurrences. Starting in 2000 drought hit. Reservoir water lines dropped till many of the natural features were exposed.

Sevigny says It’s a time to rethink the old laws and policies that govern the Colorado River, and to imagine new kinds of futures in which human desires don’t subsume a river’s needs. Followed by no landscape is unchanged by people, nor any person unchanged by the land.

Jotter died in 2013.

Epilogue: A Woman's Place.

Sevigny made a trip with a group to root out invasive species. She brought along Jotter/Holmstom’s match case and a guide based upon their observations. Earlier explorers saw the river for what it could be, harnessed for human use. Clover and Jotter saw it as it was, a living system made up of flower, leaf, and thorn, lovely in its fierceness, worthy of study for its own sake.

About a third of the guides are women. Sevigny talks about sexism in the sciences and the outdoors.

Notes

In some cases, I have reimagined the exact wording from situations recalled by those involved.

Evaluation:

When I look at a history or biography there are two things which I look at. First is the subject matter-is this something which I am interested in and how well is it written. The second is how well do I trust the narrative being presented. Sevigny is a science writer from Arizona. So the Colorado River is her backyard and she knows the area and knows how to describe both the features and the science behind the two women botanists who went down the Colorado River when it was considerably wilder.

Let's tackle the first part: Is it interesting? Is it well written? I enjoy good outdoor stories, even if I am not much of a water travel guy. Elzada Clover and Lois Jotter were the first females to travel down the Colorado. They went as botanists with a crew of four men. There was some disagreement of perspective-was this an expedition to study the plant life along the Colorado or a paid commercial venture with two botanists along. From how Sevigny presents it, it ends up being the latter.

Being the first of anything, there is the tension of should you do it? Is it feasible? Is it noteworthy? In this regard, Sevigny presents a good story, showing the sexist attitudes of that time. The river people felt that the River was too demanding and the newspapers were playing up this tension. It would have been good for Sevigny to note if women were going down other wild rivers and running rapids elsewhere.

As far as the botany aspect, in almost all of the chapters Sevigny lists a sampling of the plant life found. She talks a bit of the travails of being a woman botanist. She notes that there were species they found which were new to science.

In outdoors books, there tends to be a rhythm. In this one it goes something like sleep, eat, go down the river, there is a wild rapid-how do we run it? And botanize. The trick to writing a good outdoors book is to get the reader into the rhythm of the adventure which is mostly placid. That way the excitement of running a rapid becomes a counterpoint to the daily grind of rowing or the blandness of camp food. Sevigny more matches the constant thunder of the Colorado than the rhythms of outdoor life.

Sevignys does invoke the history of place and events. She talks about what happened at various rapids, caves and springs along the way. I enjoy hearing about these things. There are times it seems like these are fillers, but for the most part, I liked having them in there.

The second thing which I look at in a historical account is accuracy. There are some small nit-picking things, such as the names of places. Some of them she uses the older names (Granite Falls instead of Granite Rapids) and then turns around to use a new name of a rapid right beside the other. The item which really annoyed me was a paragraph on Jotter’s time in Yosemite. From how Sevigny portrays the Glacier Point Fire Fall, it was the Yosemite Field School which started it and the Park Service was embarrassed over it-her word. The Fire Fall was started well before Yosemite was a Park. And it ended in 1968 when the Park Service decided it no longer was congruent with its mission. Her paragraph here made me wonder what else did Sevigny have not quite right?

Sevigny notes that they [Clover and Jotter] would be remembered (if they were remembered at all) because they were women, not botanists. This gets to the question, why read this book? First, it is an interesting book about running the Colorado and secondly because it was the first successful time down the length of the Colorado by women. As much botany as Sevigny throws into the book, it was not the type of references which would make me interested. The bottom line is that it is not a bad read.

Notes from my book group:

Before the trip, Jotter says interesting material as I can, as otherwise, I would not consider going just for the experience. Is a trip done for the experience wasted? When you go on a trip what do you look for? What makes it successful? Does it need to be meaningful?

As Nevills gained experience with the river, he realized that He realized he needed to work with the river instead [of fighting it]. What led him to realize that? What difference did it make in how he handled or constructed a boat? Where have you come to that conclusion in your endeavors?

When tackling a rapid, Nevills evaluated it for how well they could run it. While others wanted to challenge some of the rapids, Nevills said that he would not be swayed by “incompetent opinions.” Did this seem harsh to you? Should leadership be a democracy? When should a leader take a decision themselves and when should it be put out to others?

Jotter’s father noted that You’ll come back changed. The river will change you. Have you had experience where doing something challenging outdoors has left a mark on your life? Talk about it. Why does things like that change a person? Clover said that THE OLD RIVER RUINS PEOPLE FOR SETTLING down doesn’t it? How was her life unsettled by the River?

When traveling slow, there tends to be a rhythm. their lives had been hitched to the river’s rhythms. Describe the rhythm the expedition had fallen into.

Was Clover and Jotter’s trip important scientifically? Why? When Jotter went on the Old Timers Trip, there was a statement made: These kinds of conversations revealed why Clover and Jotter’s plant list mattered: as a hedge against the human tendency to forget how the world used to look. What scientific inquiry is wasteful?

Sevigny raises the question: What does “wild” mean? How do you answer that?

Discuss her statement of A wild place isn’t one unchanged by humans. It’s a place that changes us.

Sevigny notes that they [Clover and Jotter] would be remembered (if they were remembered at all) because they were women, not botanists. Why do you think Sevigny wrote this book?

There are some remarks Sevigny makes about Yosemite: Sequoia(?) groves in Yosemite Valley and Fire falls being done by the Yosemite Field School. While neither is said implicitly, they are implied. How do you respond when an author misleads the reader? She also says that In some cases, I have reimagined the exact wording from situations recalled by those involved. What parts of this book can you rely on being factual?